How about this for sick hands

[McKenzie]

Yes Virgil is actually one of the FEW guy's where I have read pretty rave statements made concerning his rudimental technique coming directly from Top notch drum corp player's. In fact one made a statement saying he was very impressed how Virg was able to take the advanced rudiments and apply them to the WHOLE kit like no one he ever saw. That kid is very impressive by the way WOW!

Dig

[matricks]

I am just trying to give credit where it is due.

Top notch rudimental drummers have better hand technique than drum set players.

Drum set players make me FEEL something, where-as corps drummers do not.

At the end of the day, if you were to offer me the choice of having killer corps chops or a Porcaro groove transplanted into my playing... i am picking groove, cause that is what means more to me deep down. However, it doesn't mean that just because i like something/some style, more than the other, that i have that cloud my vision of how to compare something that is not abstract.

[Avi_drums]

The common denominator for me is a great swing...period. It goes beyond whether it's DCI corps or drumset. I don't concede DCI technique is superior because:

- the movement patterns lack fluidity
- I don't like the sound that's generated
- I hear a lot of them get tendonitus

[Cameron_Mahoney]

I wish I didn't have to do marching band as a requirement for my music major dtarting next year... [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

[Suspiria]

Originally posted by Cameron Mahoney:
I wish I didn't have to do marching band as a requirement for my music major dtarting next year... [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Look at it from the bright side. If your main focus will remain the drumset, I think this year will only benefit your playing!
When I was 12-14 I played in a marching band and that certainly made the transition to learning on the modern drum set a lot easier. Or atleast I progressed very quickly when I first started out.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 24, 2005 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>

[DeSeipel]

Originally posted by Henry II:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by D.Seipel:

Buddy Rich, to me, sounds like a snare drummer-gone-kit player, which he was.

A snare drum solo (corps drumming) is different that a set solo. I'm not sure how to explain it exactly, but on a kit, the nature and context in which someone plays is centered around three main things:

1.Ostinato (usually a repeated phrase on hi-hat or cymbal)
2.Bass drum (usually tells everyone listening or playing along where the beat of the music is, or the emphasis of the phrase,beat,etc.)
3.snare drum (usually tells everyone listening or playing along where the back beat is and can be used to emphasize or embellish the beat or ostinato ..ie. ghost notes)

Now, a marching band snare drummer, in my opinion, is using a completely different concept when playing a solo or piece:

1. When playing a snare solo, the beat or emphasis seems 'implied' or is defined by the snare drum phrase, in a way. This is opposite of kit solos, where the beat can be implied by other means (bass drum, whatever).
2. solo phrasing in corp drumming seems to be shorter to me, I'm probably wrong, but I never played corps solos,had no interest in them and still don't.
3. Set based solos have the option to be more beat oriented, where snare only solos are sort of beat oriented but it's not as implied as on a kit.

I didnt' exlain the last three cuz i don't have a lot of experience in corps drumming, but essentially, kit drummers are an "army of voices" and a corps drummer is only a "platoon of voices".

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Buddy Rich was a vaudevillian from the beginning, not a snare drummer. And I couldn't disagree more with your explanation of a drum set solo. BTW, an ostinato is any repeating rhythm.

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ April 24, 2005 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font></font></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe it was the way it came out but I meant that Buddy Rich SEEMED LIKE A SNARE PLAYER GONE-KIT PLAYER. the ",which he was" part of my post was meant to explain that he SEEMED TO ME, to sound like someone who first started playing snare,got really good at it, and then went to playing the kit.


My explanation of what a drum solo consisists of should've been called what a DRUM SET BEAT is made up of, I got interupted in the middle of typing and came back and lost my train of thought, I guess.

I appreciate the comments, but would like a more detailed response. Please don't just post " i disagree" that's not fair to me. Let's have a discussion, not a back-and-forth " no" you're wrong, ...."no, you're wrong"

My point was that corps drumming and kit drumming are two different things, yes they can both have similar elements, such as rudiments, but the context in which both idioms are played are completely different. Drum set can involove playing beats and or solos and snare corps drumming involves playing parts and solos.

The drummer in a band is there to keep the beat.
the drummer in a marching band is there to keep the beat, but in a completely different way than a drum set player.

A drum set solo has more voices than a plain old snare drum solo. One isn't better than the other.

I wish some folks would not make statements like," dude, DCI drummers have more chops than drum set players"

That's recockulous, it's two different things.

POST OVER.

btw smart ass-
os?ti?na?to (ŏs'tĭ-n?'t&#333 [img]wink.gif[/img]
n., pl. -tos.
A short melody or pattern that is constantly repeated, usually in the same part at the same pitch.

[Italian, from Latin obstinātus, stubborn, past participle of obstināre, to persist. See obstinate.]

[Henry II]

Originally posted by matricks:
. . . Top notch rudimental drummers have better hand technique than drum set players. . . .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As a general rule that's probably true, but it's not universally true. There are plenty of exceptions: In addition to the usual supects around here (VC, DW, VD, SG), great snare drummers include Buddy Rich, Louis Bellson, Joe Morello, Philly Joe Jones, Danny Gottlieb, Billy Cobham, Troy Davis, etc. There are more, I just can't think of them right now. (Getting old sucks).

These are all accomplished snare drummers that I would stack up against any of the rudimental snare drummers. In fact, for pure technique, I stack Buddy against just about any musician. JMHO.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 24, 2005 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>

[CLWarunki]

Originally posted by Cameron Mahoney:
Did anyone else watch those Bill Bachman set clips? He stinks! I mean, he can hold a beat, but he has no flow or creativity. Goign from that fast paced beat into qurater note stops between the snare and floor tom? Yeah, that's cool...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looked and sounded like a drum machine from the 80's IMO. No dynamics.

[Vdrummer]

Here's a Grade 2 Pipe Band score I played a few years ago. This style does demand fluidity, touch and technique. It's not as demanding as a DCI part but it reflects my rudimental background. I thought you guys might like to check it out to get an idea of what we're talking about. Can anyone here passably play the top couple of lines? Oh, yeah there are lots of dynamics and it isn't slow. Obviously, this is much more demanding than the rudimental stuff like Wilcoxin, NARD, or lots of the typical teaching texts you guys may be familiar with.

There is a higher grade 1 level that plays harder material. The score's author (and my line's former instructor) currently plays alongside Jim Kilpatrick in Shott's and Dykehead Caledonia PB. There are a couple of teenagers in that band with hands that the world's best kit players could only envy. Enjoy,

http://homepage.mac.com/polyostinato/

[Avi_drums]

There are a couple of teenagers in that band with hands that the world's best kit players could only envy.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think if more top set drummers wanted that type of chops, they'd develop them. Personally, I would never trade the shoulder/arm/wrist/hand/stick chops I've developed for some rata-tat-tat snare chops.